Intake valve burned... gosh....

[Grabber]

Just opened the valve cover, and noticed that my Cyl 2 intake valve are burned. I removed the 2 adjusting screw from the rocker and i have no play at all.... Well almost not.

Maximum gap i can have at TDC is 0.160mm So the valve got his way into the head right ?

How big of a job is it to replace 2 burned valve ?

Do you guys know what part are involved ? Do i need to replace both head gasket (top and bottom, or just top)

thanks.

[zlMark]

Man that stinks!

I would seriously consider swapping in a zg1000 motor or a zrx 11/12. #2 cylinder huh? I wonder if it had a vacuum leak at the fuel tap?????

[Grabber]

Man that stinks!

I would seriously consider swapping in a zg1000 motor or a zrx 11/12. #2 cylinder huh? I wonder if it had a vacuum leak at the fuel tap?????

fuel tap is working ok, i had my spark plug cable that was not connected proprely on cyl 2 making the spark plug not to spark proprely making this cylinder running way too rich.

I have adjusted the gap now and since all is fixed, the engine is running ok.

My question is would i damage more thing if i am running the engine like this...

Is my valve bent like a mushroom in order to inter in the head or is the valve seat worn, letting the valve to enter in the head more deeply ?

[zlMark]

I think it would be the valve. Way back they had a recall on the valves,, not sure what the fix was,, maybe yours wasn't fixed??

[Grabber]

I think it would be the valve. Way back they had a recall on the valves,, not sure what the fix was,, maybe yours wasn't fixed??

Should be too much of effort to change the valve do you think ?

First of all, do you think that valves, and head gasket are still available for this bike ?

By making a visual inspection of the valve spring (top) clearance with the rocker arm, there is approx 2mm difference with those from Cyl 3. So this is telling me the valve is pushed inside the head at least 2mm.

You suggested swapping the engine.... wow... is changing a valve take that much time and effort ??? Unless there is something i dont see here.

[zlMark]

Well it isn't gonna be cheap to do a valve job. tear it down and see what it needs and how much it's gonna cost. Then see how much a good used motor would run ya. How many miles on that motor? How many poorly tuned miles on that motor? Running an engine out of tune will kill it's longevity........ guaranf'nteed

[Grabber]

Well it isn't gonna be cheap to do a valve job. tear it down and see what it needs and how much it's gonna cost. Then see how much a good used motor would run ya. How many miles on that motor? How many poorly tuned miles on that motor? Running an engine out of tune will kill it's longevity........ guaranf'nteed


Well this engine as allways been running well. It pulls hard, idle well, start very well too. I will definitely repair it.

What parts are involved you think ?

I see one intake valve (maybe 2)
I see one head gasket,

euh..... maybe a valve seat, if i cant use the old one....

what else ?

[Grabber]

here is a picture of her.
http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/7739/sspx0027m.th.jpg (http://img40.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sspx0027m.jpg)

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/3676/sspx0031.th.jpg (http://img194.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sspx0031.jpg)

[zlMark]

what else ?


It's the "while your in there" stuff thats gonna cost you. :laughing7:

[Grabber]

It's the "while your in there" stuff thats gonna cost you. :laughing7:


well all is well besides this. I am sure. I will not change the valve of the other cylinder if they dont need.
I will check my compression tomorrow and post it here to get your oppinion. The bike pulls like no tomorrow, its very frustrating to see that i might have to open her for 2 **** valve.

I dont have any compression gauge now but by putting my hand over the spark plug hole, i have a nice pressure while cranking the engine, the pressure i have from Cyl 2 is the same (same feeling anyway) compared to the other cylinder... So i assume that the valve head seal shouldnt be too damaged (if any)

I dont need to remove the engine to do this job, right ?

Oh, just in case you ask who is going to do the job..... Me of course and YOU !!!! :devil:

[zlMark]

WILL WORK FOR BEER! (Those who know me can vouch for that!)

Yea, you can pull the upper off without having to pull the motor.

[Grabber]

WILL WORK FOR BEER! (Those who know me can vouch for that!)

Yea, you can pull the upper off without having to pull the motor.

Thanks man :headbang:

[jmac]

fuel tap is working ok, i had my spark plug cable that was not connected proprely on cyl 2 making the spark plug not to spark proprely making this cylinder running way too rich.

I have adjusted the gap now and since all is fixed, the engine is running ok.

My question is would i damage more thing if i am running the engine like this...

Is my valve bent like a mushroom in order to inter in the head or is the valve seat worn, letting the valve to enter in the head more deeply ?


You said the bike was running ok.If the valve was burnt it would not be sealing right.Since it is a intake valve,I would think it would be popping through the carbs.

Are you sure you had the engine spun around in the right place to check the valve lash.I'm not a bike engine expert,but that just sounds a little wierd .Some body say something if I'm not thinking right.

[Grabber]

You said the bike was running ok.If the valve was burnt it would not be sealing right.Since it is a intake valve,I would think it would be popping through the carbs.

Are you sure you had the engine spun around in the right place to check the valve lash.I'm not a bike engine expert,but that just sounds a little wierd .Some body say something if I'm not thinking right.


Thanks for your reply. Today at lunch time, i did open the shop manual and noticed they want you to put the flywheel mark to 1.4 (even to set the valves for Cyl 2 and 3) This is probably my mistake.... i did my valve checkup using the 2.3 mark on the flywheel. (this to check cyl 2 and 3)

I have a Honda V65 and there is 2 marks on the flywheel, one for Cyl 1-3, and the other 2-4.
Once the timing mark at 1-3 for example, you have to check on the cylinder that the cam lobe point the opposite direction. (either cyl1 or 3 in this example) You need to do the same with the 2-4 marks.

I hope this is the reason of the non clearance problem. (i hope anyway.)

Will open her up tonight and let you know.

[zlMark]

I don't screw with the timing cover and marks. just make sure the cam isn't on the lobe and adjust the pair of valves.. bump it with the starter and do the next,, easy as pie!

[Grabber]

I don't screw with the timing cover and marks. just make sure the cam isn't on the lobe and adjust the pair of valves.. bump it with the starter and do the next,, easy as pie!

Yeah, i did check the clearance with the timing mark at 1.4 and i am still on the tight side. I can set the clearance up to 0.15mm now, but this is the max clearance i can get. My 2 intake valves are probably worn up to the service limit and have to be changed.

As per shop manual, the valve tickness is 0.50mm and the service limit is 0.25

I did compare the free play between the cam lobe and the rocker pad (with both adjusting screw removed, and cam facing upward) and have approx 0.23mm difference if i compage intake 2 and intake 3

What is the reason of this, this is probably my fault, maybe the adjusting screw were not tight ennough and i probably ran the bike the the valves too tight.

Made a phone call to the local Kawa dealer and all the parts are availables. They ask 28.00 for each valve, and 90.00 for the top head gasket.

Question for you guys, will i need a valve spring compressor to remove the valve or can i remove them without ? (the dealer is charging 100.00 to put the valve in, euh... i think i can do it myself, what do you think ?)

thanks.

[Grabber]

was looking on Ebay and there is a zl1000 head that seems to be in good condition, rocker included.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1987-Kawasaki-ZL1000-Head_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ10066QQihZ001QQite mZ110390353790QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW#ebayphotohos ting

I think this head will fit my bike, right ?

The thing is that i might buy this head and have more problems afterward... valve seal, valve seat etc....
At least i know mine have 2 valve problem, but all is fine other than that. What would you do if you were to take the decision.... change the head or repair the 2 damaged valves ?

Cost wise it will be more expensive to change the head because i still have to buy a new gasket. But price is not really a concern, it can cost 300.00 or 500.00 i want my bike it top shape like before.

[fastfatcow]

i think that once you get in there you will find that all of the intake valves are bad. your best and probably cheapest way out is to just fix the head you have. my zl1k did the same thing and all intake valves were shot. you will need to have a reputable machine shop touch up the seats also.

[Grabber]

i think that once you get in there you will find that all of the intake valves are bad. your best and probably cheapest way out is to just fix the head you have. my zl1k did the same thing and all intake valves were shot. you will need to have a reputable machine shop touch up the seats also.


All the intake valves were shot :shock:
Curious to know how was your cylinder compression prior removing the head ?
How was the bike running ?

[jmac]

I don't screw with the timing cover and marks. just make sure the cam isn't on the lobe and adjust the pair of valves.. bump it with the starter and do the next,, easy as pie!


That is the way I did mine too.Try checking the valves this way before you go buy a new head.There is kind of a sweet spot they need to be in to check them.Have you done your compression test.If it is running good,I don't think I would get to worried just yet.

How many miles are on yours.Mine has 25k,and still has plenty of adjustment left.Under normal conditions I would think they should last quite a while.(jmo)I'm sure somebody on here has a better idea of how long they last.

I just hate to see ya drop a load of cash for stuff you don't need.

[Grabber]

Just did a compression test. The compression gauge i used is the one you push on the spark plug hole with the rubber end. Wonder if i had the fitting that screw IN the spark plugs hole, would the reading be different ?


Cold
Cyl1 165
Cyl2 145
Cyl3 162
Cyl4 155

Cold with 4ml of oil in each cyl
Cyl1 175
Cyl2 160
Cyl3 175
Cyl4 160

No need to tell you that i am very happy with the results. I took a picture of the rocker\valve tip, will post later to show you how bad it is.
With this results am i correct to say that my head is not damaged by the deffective valves ?

Very happy because 2 years ago, i posted here my results on compression test, and Cyl 2 was 145. Minor change in results for the other cyl probably because of the valve setting, because my results this year are higher than 2 year ago. go figure !

http://www.zl-oa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6806&highlight=cylinder+compression

[Grabber]

here is a picture showing how little clearance between the rocker arm and the spring holder. 0.038mm it basically touch it.

http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/3737/cyl2intakeproblem.th.jpg (http://img188.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cyl2intakeproblem.jpg)

[paulfun]

If the pic is accurate and my eyes are not playing tricks on me-
Something tells me that those valves have been replaced with the wrong valves already.
Are your valves really burnt? does the valve stem show signs of overheat and stretch/stress?

[Grabber]

If the pic is accurate and my eyes are not playing tricks on me-
Something tells me that those valves have been replaced with the wrong valves already.
Are your valves really burnt? does the valve stem show signs of overheat and stretch/stress?

euh... well i own this bike since 18year ago. I am not the original owner.
How can you say this just by looking at the picture posted

[paulfun]

euh... well i own this bike since 18year ago. I am not the original owner.
How can you say this just by looking at the picture posted

I cant tell anything for sure! But the pic makes it look like the valve stem is too long and the valve seats dont usually get pounded up into the head that far (or at leaast the ones I've seen) the distance between spring coils also looks excessive. But pics are good but siometimes decieving.

How could I tell a set of pistons were overbored just from a pic?

[Grabber]

I cant tell anything for sure! But the pic makes it look like the valve stem is too long and the valve seats dont usually get pounded up into the head that far (or at leaast the ones I've seen) the distance between spring coils also looks excessive. But pics are good but siometimes decieving.

How could I tell a set of pistons were overbored just from a pic?

You have to understand here by looking at the picture is while Cyl2 valve are not compressed, the intake of cyl3 ARE, so this is why the Cyl2 ones seems to be a lot longuer than the other. To compare them though, if you want to look at the picture again, look at the amount of tread shown on the ajusting screw. We can easily see 2 tread on Cyl 3 but on the Cyl2 euh... it looks like 3 - 3.5 tread.

I am not questionning your opinion (even if the way i wrote it, it seams to be like that, not very good in english speaking\writing), in all honnesty i am more than happy to see guys like you taking your time to help others here on this forums. keep them comming, WE ALL appreciate your help.


I took the mesure between both intake valve of Cyl 2 and Cyl3

I have removed the 2 ajusting screw from both rockers, so the valves were all closed, i then took the mesure from the cam to the rocker pad (with cam lobe facing upward). I had approx 0.25 mm difference approx between the 2

Here is an other picture of intake of Cyl 1 this time. This one might be better for comparaison on the clearance. Take a look at the adjusting screw. Now if you compare both Cylinder, i can see that Cyl1 have approx 2 tread visible when Cyl2 has almost 3.5 tread. (both valves are adjusted to 0.16mm)

http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/5082/cyl1intakeok.th.jpg (http://img42.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cyl1intakeok.jpg)

also notice that the spring lenght seems more of the same length as opposed to the first picture.

Thanks again for your reply.