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oil cooler

Has anyone installed an oil cooler on there zl? How hard would this be? Any good connecting points for the lines?
tell me what ya think or what you've done.........

gonz
 
This is the second zl i have owned and both of them seem to be hot runners....All the bikes I've had since my first zl have had oil coolers...I thought this might cool things down a bit........I noticed one on a concorse also.....why would that bike have one with the same motor?? It must help somthing....
gonz......
 
The concours has one because the motor is totally enclosed by the fairing.
I've had my ZL1000 for 16 years and although it used to run hot and the coolant overflowed occaisionally, I've now got that sorted by rewiring the temperature sensors. No more overheating.

KK
 
KK,
Last night I was doing a little cleaning on the pass side of the motor and when I looked under the bike there was a plug hanging down....I saw the sender it went to and plugged it in...I swear that the fan ran with the bike runningbefor I plugged this in...but it doesn't seem to anymore...just when I turn the key off....could this be the cause?? why would this be unplugged. I rode it to work today....about 20 miles of town driving, one way, so it got plent hot.....I didn't notice the fan coming on...but I did when I shut i off.....
hmmmmmm......
gonzo......
 
Gonzo,
It is normal for the fan to run (if it needs to) when you turn the ignition off. Mine does this occasionally and when it does its usually when it was not running with the engine going. I first thought it was faulty until I did an analysis of the wiring diagram, it is all to do with the sensor configuration and their temp settings. Just because the fan was running before you reconnected the wire and is not afterwards doesn't necessarily mean that the system is faulty (as I thought mine was). I temp gauge on these bikes would be great, even if only to put our minds at rest hey?

When I get home tonight I'll get the figures and explain in more detail how the system is designed to work (unless of coarse someone else here beats me to the punch).
 
Not finished yet......more probs than expected :?

oilcooler.jpg
 
I have a oilcooler installed

Hello
I am from the Netherlands and I installed an Oilcooler
It is not easy
Firts you need a oilpan from A zx1000 (gpz1000rx) ,and then you have to lower the balanspipe in your exhaustpipes (welding)
It would be nice if i could post a few pictures on this site but I believe it is not possible anymore
This is what I did with the engine
Zx1000 pistons
zx1000 crank
zx1000 cams
zx1000 carbs
stage3
K&n filters
Supertrapps
Oilbypass by myself
Zzr 1100 radiator (zx11)
Here is a link with some pictures


http://papa.messageboard.nl/7657/viewtopic.php?t=117&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=45

Later Ewoud
 
This has been my contention all along!

Kawasaki have got these sensors wrong! I'm sure of it

The 110 deg sensor is in circuit when the engine is running and the 97 deg sensor is in circuit when the engine is stopped. Yes the fan can run with the ignition off, on hot days.

BUT


Doesn't water, boil at 100 degrees????

Therefore a 110 deg sensor is NEVER going to work as the water is already boiling away long before 110 deg is ever reached. Change the wiring as the other thread suggests (link above) or put a 97 deg sensor where the 110 deg sensor should be and all problems dissapear.

No need for oil coolers, sump pans or whatever.

KK
 
water boiling

Unless the water in Scotland is different than here in the USA, I don't think so, then the boiling point of water is 212 degrees. Now I don't know how this converts to celsius or if the Scots even use the celsius readings.
Furchin
 
Just to add to the above ....

Yes ... the boiling point of water is 212(F) or 100(C) BUT that's at normal atmospheric pressure.

The cooling system is effectively pressurised ABOVE normal atmospheric pressure by a few psi, (hence a 10 lb radiator cap or whatever it's rating is).

This pressurisation of the system effectively RAISES the boiling point by a number of degrees!!

SO ... provided the system is working properly AND the radiator cap is maintaining the proper pressure in the system, the coolant can actually go a bit past the normal boiling point of 212(F) or 100(C) and still not be actually boiling. Given the age of these bikes, if there is anything in the way of cooling system boil-over etc the first option would be to look at the radiator cap and given it is a "relative inexpensive" item it'd be worth buying a new one.

I had problems with my ZL1000 spewing coolant out of the overflow tank vent when I got it and I replaced the radiator cap, checked all the hoses etc and replaced the coolant, "burped the system as per factory recommendations" ... after that I had no problems at all even sitting in stop/start traffic during our Melbourne Summer days with temperatures of 40(C)/104(F) and above. During these times the fan DID cut in and ran constantly until I was out of the stop/start situation and moving in free air again.

Hope this help a little ...
 
Please let me know when you figure out the sensors. My '85 900 seems to jump around at idle until it warms up and the fan kicks on. Seems when the fan is running the engine idles fine. Can't figure out what the connection is between the idle and fan. Not too concerned with it but is one of those "ghosts" I would like to eliminate (pun intended).
 
Well I’ve finally found the time to sit down and do the two finger typing thing, at work. My PC at home spat a dummy (30GB IBM DeskStar HDD down the drain with all the data onboard, bugger!!!). I’m currently installing a new 200GB HDD, a new BIOS on the motherboard (to run such a large HDD), Windows XP Prof., a whole bunch of new drivers to run on XP, Windows Office 2003 and everything else to boot. I guess I should have expected it, I bought it in May 2001 so it a dinosaur, what do I do, upgrade or salary sacrifice on a new laptop?

KK, Rossco, Rammy and others, here’s my attempt to “eliminate the ghosts”. Although this has more to do with another topic, it is closely related to the deliberations of why an oil cooler should or should not be fitted; perhaps I’ll post it in the ‘other post’ at a latter date. In simple terms I’ll now try to explain how I believe the Eliminator cooling system was designed and, in my experience, how it works (assuming everything is serviceable).

1. Ignition OFF – Fan runs anytime temp is above 97°C @ radiator base.

2. Ignition ON and oil is below 120°C – Fan ON anytime temp is above 97°C @ radiator base.

3. Ignition ON and oil is above 120°C – Fan OFF if temp is below 110°C @ thermostat inlet.

4. Ignition ON and oil is above 120°C – Fan ON anytime temp is above 110°C @ thermostat inlet.

Now I’ll try to explain in a more detailed manner. I apologise to those without access to a Kawasaki ZL900/ZL1000 Motorcycle Service Manual Supplement manual/wiring diagram. For those of you with a manual/wiring diagram, I’ll refer you to the item location/numbers in the figure on page 3-2 and the wiring diagram items (bracketed numbers) on page 16-13 for the ZL900 and 18-30 for the ZL1000 as follows:

Item layout/location on page 3-2:
1. – 97°C (207°F) Fan Switch - Base of Radiator
3. – Fan Switch Relay
4. – Fan relay
5. – 120°C (248°F) Water Temperature Switch - Thermostat, discharge side
7. – 110°C (230°F) Fan Switch - Thermostat, inlet side

Cooling Fan System Wiring on page 16-13 & 18-30
(8) – 97°C (207°F) Fan Switch
(3) – Fan Switch Relay
(2) – Fan relay
(9) – 110°C (230°F) Fan Switch
(10) – Engine Oil Temperature Switch (120°C?) – located in the engine sump

The (°F) figures are for those more familiar with Fahrenheit, but here I’ll use Celsius (°C) because that’s what KHI uses in the manuals. The term ‘switch’ refers to what many would call a sensor but technically they are purely a simple switch (to ground).

The Engine Oil Temperature Switch fitted to my bike is 110°C, I can’t find it in the ZL supplement but the ZX900 base manual lists it as 120°C on page 16-31. For ease of clarity against the other water temp switches (97°C/110°C), I’ll refer to it as a 120°C Engine Oil Temperature Switch, though not to be confused with item 5, 120°C Water Temperature (indication) Switch.

Firstly let’s get item 5 out of the way. This 120°C Water Temperature Switch at the discharge side of the thermostat is purely for cooling system over temperature indication (dual function water temp/oil pressure light in the tacho) and has nothing to do with controlling the cooling fan (see Water Temperature Warning System on pages 16-16 and 18-32).

Now the Cooling Fan System; first cab off the rank, lets explain why the fan often runs even when the key’s turned off. At rest, with ignition off, there is always power available at the Fan Relay (2), control and contact, hot off the battery. The power to this relay’s control is grounded via the Fan Switch Relay (3) contact which, at rest, is grounded through the 97°C Fan Switch (8). So to close the contact of the Fan Relay (2) and operate the fan all that is needed is for the water temp to rise above 97°C. Why such a low temp of 97°C I hear you ask? The reason the system has been designed to run this way with the ignition off has more to do with thermal expansion than trying to keep the system temp below 97°C. It’s well known that when an engine is initially turned off (i.e. the water pump is not running) there is a considerable amount of heat soak from the hot engine into the cooling system owing to the fact that there is no water flowing through the radiator and nor is there any airflow through the radiator. This causes the water temperature (read ‘volume’) to rise significantly and if not managed by reducing the temp quickly can cause the cooling system reservoir to overflow. Although not much can be done to reduce the water temp in the engine, reducing the temp of the water in the radiator alone is enough to reduce the total system temp/volume and thus resolves the overflow problem. The reason the 97°C Fan Switch (8) is located at the base of the radiator is because this is the coolest position in the system and where the radiator water will first flow after being cooled by the fan running off the battery (wouldn’t want to return to a dead horse on a hot day). This is why some may assume gremlins are in the system as they walk away from the bike and the fan suddenly starts to run, particularly if the water was just below 97°C when the engine stops.

This system would also suffice with the ignition ON however 97°C is too cool and not the optimal temperature to be maintained in an efficient internal combustion engine. This is why the 110°C Fan Switch (9) was introduced (at the inlet side of the thermostat, virtually the hottest part of the system). Firstly, when the ignition is on, power is available to the control side of the Fan Switch Relay (3) which is grounded via the 120°C Engine Oil Temperature Switch (10). Secondly, when the engine oil temperature reaches 120°C the Fan Switch Relay (3) is energised and the contact is moved from the 97°C Fan Switch (8) to the 110°C Fan Switch (9). So in other words when the engine oil is maintained above 120°C the fan is maintaining 110°C in the cooling system. The by-product of this system is that before the engine oil reaches 120°C, the fan is controlled by the 97°C Fan Switch (8).

Let’s assume that for every psi increase in system pressure the boiling point of water also increases 3°F. Therefore water in a pressurised system of 11-15psi (ZX900 spec, I believe ZL spec also) would boil between 118°C and 125°C (245°F and 257°F) dependant on the spec and condition of your radiator cap. The boiling point of specialised radiator fluid is different again and much likely to be higher. It therefore appears to be quite reasonable that KHI would chose 110°C and 120°C for the cooling system ‘normal temp’ and ‘over temp warning’ respectively. So it would appear that this system has some method in its madness. I for one would not recommend changing the sensor specs, too low and you risk premature wear in the engine, too high and you risk boiling the system. My entire system is as per spec (except for perhaps the oil temp switch) and I’ve never had overheating or overflow problems, even after a 6.5hr ride in 44°C (111°F) summer heat.

Without comprehensive understanding of this system it would be very easy to assume there’s a problem with a perfectly serviceable system. Remember it’s not all about the water temperature; oil temperature is also a large part of the puzzle. It is unfortunate that we can’t post pics of the diagrams on the site at the moment; it’s difficult to make sense of these things without a wiring diagram in front of you. If any of you would like a copy of the diagram, send me a PM with your e-mail address and I’ll pass it on, when I can.

I stand to be corrected on any of the details above but I do believe this to be as close as the politics is to evil. When my PC is fixed I must put together a website for such things.
 
Well, we did determine that the suspension in my front forks needs replacing. Going to order parts from Progressive. Mark @ Kawai said that I can ride it until the parts get in and that it's safe. He checked it out good for me. I'm disappointed since the bike only has 1,700mi on it and never sat outside. Is this a common problem with the ZL's? Anything else I should expect?
 
zette said:
I do need to get my tires checked and perhaps rebalanced because my front has a funny little up and down bounce. The tires are new (IRC) and put on right before I bought it
Are we talking about the same problem here?

Yes the ZL's are spongey at the front but then that's not a 'fault' as such...its just how they are and yes, the progressive springs are a reasonable upgrade.

You shouldn't have a continuous up and down movement though, the dampers in the forks should iron that out. Just replacing the springs won't cure it if the damping is not right.

KK
 
I'm going to pick up my bike in the morning and I will talk with them some more about the front end. Is there something better than Progressive that I should consider? I am new to this and on a huge learning curve. I'm surprised with so few miles but I suppose age just got to her, as it does with all of us.
 
Zette,
progressives are a definite improvement - still supple enough to soak up bumps and firm enough to keep the front end from bottoming out under braking.
Did you know if the wheel balanced when the new tyre was fitted?
maybe a balance weight has come off?
 
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