Fuel Injection Conversion

  • Thread starter Thread starter ARCHIVE_kawasaki-krazy
  • Start date Start date
Ya know KK SOoooooME people are just too stupid to breed.

If you are gonna get into it do it WHEN out of the curve not before.

Or learn how to hit that little thingy called a Brake.


:wink:
 
Me Wonders how BIG the Drop was on the Otherside of That Wall :?: :?: Ive seen all kinds of "STUPID ****" in my 27 Years of Riding, and Still see the SOS 8O :P Yeah I dont Usualy Yank on the Throttle in the Middle of a Corner :?: , Later The Nutter :twisted:
 
Re: parts

He was probably trying to get away from the nut with the camera. That dude should have pulled back long before the curve. I think that's what the dude who had the wreck is going to say.
 
Fella’s,
This one has probably been asked before, can I do it, and if so, how? I went for a ride on my velocipede to the National Motorcycle Museum (at Nabiac NSW, >750 bikes and growing, look it up in Google Earth, it’s the biggest shed in town next to the pacific highway). I was with a mate from work and his Ducati S2R shat all over mine for fuel economy, We started off with a fill at the same servo and at the next stop his took only $9.50 but my guzzler drank $13.80, that’s a huge difference between two 1000cc bikes (the S2R is an injected twin). Now before you all try to convince me to change my filter and give it a tune-up, my beasty has always returned 200km to reserve, now and straight after the last air filter change and tune up.

Now I know the ZL’s Keihin CV carbs have a 34mm bore diameter and have 42mm outsides to slip inside the inlet tubes (engine side). The problem is there’s not too many 34mm throttle bodies out there. I do know the Kawasaki Z750(S) throttle bodies are 34mm but I’m not sure of the pitch; from the pics I’ve seen they look like they are evenly spaced across the cylinders so I don’t know if they’ll mount up OK. The ZL1K has a wider spacing between 2-3 than that of 1-2 and 3-4. Also, the injectors on the Z750 probably won’t have the capacity to keep up with the demands of 997cc.

A local wrecker recommended I consider a system from a BMW K100. I searched the www to check the specs and well I’ll be a monkey’s uncle, now I know why. They’ve got:

1. 34mm bore,

2. independent throttle bodies (they mount on metal plates just like the Keihin CVs do so I can adjust the pitch to suit my cylinder head inlet spacing),

3. they’re designed for 987cc (injectors should be good to go),

4. external in-line fuel pump (I didn’t really want to modify the tank and there’s no room for a pump to be mounted to the underside), and best of all

5. the K100 is old enough so the whole system should be reasonably cheap (compared to a late model Z750 system).

So guys, what ya recon? Are there any other alternative systems out there (Suzuki GSX1400FE?), has anyone done this to a ZG motor before and can it be done without spending squillians $?
 
Call me a dinosaur if you like, but one of the main points about the Eliminator that I particularly like is the fact that I can mend almost EVERYTHING on the bike myself. My mates with plastic rockets have to take their bike to the dealers for almost everything.
The Eliminator only has one piece of electronics on the bike and its easy to "fault find" on it. If you start adding electronic fuel injection I think that you are storing up some trouble for the future.

I cannot understand why everybody is so hell bent on changing what is now a classic motorcycle, able to hold its own against almost all the modern bikes in stock trim.

But then....each to their own I suppose.

:ignore: Stands back and waits for the slating. :ignore:


KK
 
Injected ZL

...You know guy's...
In the subject of fuel injecting the old Zl would be a great idea, but from a cost view it would be kinda impractical in that outside of finding donor trottle bodies, fuel pump, and computer (the easy part). You now have to index and maching the intake camshaft for a reluctor and machine a place in the valve cover to hold a camshaft position sensor. Also fab up some sorta flywheel/reluctor for the crank, and just as important hand make a wiring harness to connect all the sensors and other componets together. All of this and the only real benefit would be easy starts on cold mornings, and crisp trottle response. Bike would be no faster or noticebly quicker. The gain in extra mileage would not be enough for me to go through it.
GREAT IDEA though!! Besides the difference in mileage between the BMW and the ZL could easily be made up with a good aftermarket ignition system (amplifier, coils, ign. wires) such as MSD brand name or equal...Benefits of this mod... Lighting quick throttle response, fewer tune-ups, better fuel mileage.
 
My next mod to the ZL1200R,using mainly existing Kaw parts.
Not hard if I use the complete harness from the donor wreck,
along w/a power comander and a few other parts I won`t mention.
(I wanna be the 1st to FI a ZRX motor)
 
im with KK on this one you all are always saying how quick these things are and so much fun to ride and all this other jazz :stir: now you want to take one of the greatest bikes ever, that can still spank most new bikes and modify it all into confusion :nonono: i say keep it simple stupid! but i'm old fashoned. aww well my 600 doesn't even run at the moment

if you do it i wanna see smoke from a rolling start cause that would just be sweet :D
 
Yep, all good replies fellas. KK, not at all mate, you could call me a dinosaur too, I do ride an ‘80s retro which is out of step with the temporary citizens on their crouch rockets today. Yes, I like the idea of keeping it original and I’m more than happy with the performance of the OEM setup (carbs/ignition). The only reason I am considering EFI is I’m interested in the economy gains and whether I could actually do the installation. It was always going to be false economics because the improvement in fuel consumption could never compensate the cost of installing the system, even a cheap used BMW setup. Cold starts are never a problem for me; choke on, idle for 1.5mins, choke off and its smooth as silk. I’m also very happy with its current reliability and I’m comfortable taking it anywhere on long 6.5hr trips without tools, knowing the thing back to front and inside out helps my confidence. Because I do all the maintenance myself, I know what has and hasn’t been done and the minute details and condition of all the parts I work on.

One of the main reasons for considering this project is the (minor) risk of bending another conrod. On the shed floor I have the original motor that the previous owner wrecked when he let the carburettor needles and fuel petcock deteriorate to the point when fuel drained into the inlet and she hydraulically locked during starting and this bent the rod. This doesn’t happen with EFI systems. Another point is that I always intended to make the installation entirely reversible without leaving a trace behind (hence the external fuel pump and maintaining the same 34mm throttle bodies etc).

Of course the final decision to proceed will not be made until I know all the risks, costs and schedule (I can’t do without my daily ride).

TBusaMike, why would I need to
index and machine the intake camshaft for a reluctor and machine a place in the valve cover to hold a camshaft position sensor
Click to expand...
The cam shaft rotates at exactly ½ the speed of the crankshaft so I don’t see the need for more than a crank sensor which the bike already has. I assume this is purely for the signal pulse for the injectors and surely a simple solid state module on the crank sensor ignoring every other pulse should accommodate this.

Monkeyhanger, the Z1000 has 38mm throttle bodies, too big to fit the inlet tubes and I don’t want to loose the bottom end torque with the bigger throat of the larger throttle bodies. The boost to the top end, while beneficial, would be unnecessary (this top end boost would also negate the improvement in the fuel economy, you know, if its available, I’d certainly be tempted to use it).

Hey guys, thanks for the feedback, keep it coming, its all good food for thought and very encouraging. You see I’m sure we’re doing all the development work for the KHI engineers as they consider the release of the ZL1200 fuel injected, upside down forked model in 2009. They can read english and they are looking over your shoulder…
 
Well lets see, I dont think were talking about the same bike because my '85 ZL9 does not have a camshaft sensor on it, but even if your bike does then that would mean that its not carburated. But lets say that you have a cam sensor, this is what the computer uses to know when to fire the injector. Does the donor comp. read the camshaft in the exact location that your bikes cam reluctor is placed in ? If not you will have to find out where the comp. sees signal on the donor bike and duplicate it on yours. Now that weve got the injectors in 'time', what about ignition timing. Our bikes (carb'ed) fire what called waste spark. In order to take "FULL" advantage of fuel injection it would have to fire sequentialy. You now have to machine a reluctor with the amount of pulses that the donor comp. need to see in order to not only fire the plugs, but also in time.
Believe me Ive had many ideas and because its usually for me I dont care about time or money, ends up a lot of times just another unfinished box or boxes or just stuff. What it sounds like your looking for is fuel economy and throttle responce. This can EASILY be accomplished by tuning your bike on a bike (chassis) dyno looking to achieve perfect or near perfect A/F ratio. Takes a long time but the results are exactly the same as F.I. for a whole lot less
 
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