Oil pan mod update !

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Exhaust issues

I am caught in a conundrum:
I love the look of the stock pipes on my 85 zl900, but I can't help but think they are too restrictive, especially since I just got a set of individuals and complete stage 1&3 rejetting kit. I can't find any aftermarket pipes for $250 or less and I don't want to spend any more on the bike, especially since I might sell it come spring. I love the super trapps, but I don't think they're made anymore and the D&D system is just ugly to me. I can polish aluminum if I can find some used slip-ons, but I just can't find anything to fit. Has anyone out there used individuals with a stock system? How is it working out? Can you drill out the stocks without ruining the looks?
 
If it weren`t for the stupid frame downtube placement any
late model bigbore kaw aftermarket pipes would fit.
I`m using the stock headpipes on the ZRX1200 motor because
I have to,and I was surprised they fit.
Also adding the holeshot slipons and an Ivans stg III kit w/pods.
 
This is part of a thread on the GPZ900R org site. It is worth a read as it is written by a guy who worked (works?) at WESTECH, who used to do mods to cure it .!
:detective:
This problem is not a common as believed, if an owner has not had a problem as yet, I think they are unlikley to, unless they radically change thier riding style to a more aggressive variety. Some of the failures in the past must have been down to partially blocked I and J pipes during the manufacturing process - it would'nt take much, as system is marginal to start with. Anyone clearing the filter screens in the sump pan will no doubt have noticed that these accumalate lots of debris, some of this may in some instances contribute to restricting flow in the I and J pipes, so regular oil changes and clearing of oil screens and gallerys can only help to reduce any potential risk.

I aqquired three gpz900r oil pans for trying this conversion from a private seller and in all cases the oil screen in the small half sphere on the sump pan had large amount of bearing debris trapped in the mesh, a quick look at the engines related to these pan indicated that they had all died from lack of oil primarily to no3 bearing and the cam shafts also showed signs of oil starvation.

For years 750 Turbo owners have announced thier bottom ends as indestructible. Until the last year or so when the oil galleries have been looked at in more depth due to some failures and enquiring minds wanting to know why, end result is that again the oil carrying capacity of the turbo oil galleries is marginal and some simple modification easily done by a DIY'er can rectify this and reduce the risk of damage to a hard ran engine. The owners group now has three modification How To's at thier forum.

It's unfortunate that the pictures of the modification to the the oiling system in the head at Yahoo groups have been delated, should anyone have a copie of these please post them as agin a straight forward modification that allows some peace of mind.

The White Paper

Westech Discussion
Oil-related failures of ZX-11s


We have offered oil bypass systems since 1994, and have made these observations over the last five years. Initially our system added an external #8 line and fed oil directly to the #3 bearing. While this system worked, it was a little difficult for some owners to install. It required a little filing of the inside cases and fitting a single standtube between the oil pan and the crank assembly. The filing was a little messy and getting the standtube fitted properly could be trying. The external line was also a hassle to work around when changing the oil.
We spent a winter measuring the oil flow, pressure and volume, of a stock bike with stock pan etc., and the same bike with our external bypass system. The results? Flow of our external bypass oiling system was up 25% in volume to the big end at the same pressure level. We then worked through some different configurations and came up with an internal modification (to the 'J' tube, 'I' tube and oilpan) that increased the flow the exact same amount…25%. The internal 'bypass' (it actually isn't a bypass but that's how we refer to it) is easier to install and servicing the oil filter is the same as stock. We immediately offered this kit and guess what? Most everyone was skeptical and wanted the old 'proven kit'. Well, it's been a couple of years now and the new system is proving just as reliable as the external system. We do have several shops that insist on using the older system and we just smile and give them what they want. But I want to make it known right here, right now: both the internal and external bypass kits increase the flow the same amount. As far as the engine is concerned either kit does exactly the same thing…increase the quantity of oil available to the big end.

Now as to what causes these failures: we have studied dozens and dozens of pans (with their J and I tubes). Of the pans that came from engines that had lost the #3 rod all but two had some sort of obvious restriction compared to most of the others that came from non-blown up engines. Most of these restrictions weren't significant…although several had quite a large ball of brass in the area where the fittings are joined to the tubes. It now appears that if the oiling system is at all marginal, for whatever reason or reasons this added restriction is enough to allow for the oil starvation and ultimately the rod failure. Quite a few shops have their own special cure, i.e. (listed from most used to least used 'cures'), switch to the most expensive synthetic oil, add every oil additive that they can find, increase the oil pressure, block off/remove the balancer shaft assembly, add a bypass system. Oil related failures generally show up in the #3 bearing.

The only other consistent oil related failure shows up on the cam. If you've had an oil related cam failure you can rest assured that you're bottom end is getting plenty of oil. To put it another way, if the oil supply to your bottom end is impaired the #3 bearing is going to fail much quicker than a camshaft, so if your camshaft failed the odds are excellent that your bottom end is okay. We've talked with hundreds of ZX11 owners that have tens of thousands of miles on their bikes. We have to believe that since there are so many totally stock engines with many thousands of miles on them, ridden by riders who are totally abusive to their equipment, that if the engine is manufactured at or near its proposed design tolerances the stock oiling system is adequate. When the tolerances are off a little (remember that at some point all it takes is one more straw to break the camel's back) the #3 rod is very susceptible to an oil related failure. The effect of increasing the oil pressure might be enough hedge to handle the potential for oil starvation, but by increasing the oil pressure the engine will be using more power to turn the pump and that means less available horsepower to you. Eliminating the balancer shaft assembly will increase the initial volume of oil to the #3 bearing and the engine will rev quicker. If your crank isn't well balanced you'll notice an increased vibration level and in some extreme situations these vibration levels will cause a catastrophic engine failure.

It's not wise to eliminate the balancer shaft unless the crank assembly can be balanced by a professional shop. Falacon has been doing it for years and they know their business. Synthetic oil / filter changes at least every 2,000 miles will also give your engine a fighting chance.

So many choices, but what to do? If your engine is a candidate for an oil bypass system then an oil bypass system is the most reasonable and economical solution. How can you tell? Well, if your bike was manufactured after 4/97 you probably don't need the system. To date we haven't heard from anyone with a mid '97 or later bike that has lost #3. UPDATE-SEE BELOW! If you are the original owner, have at least a few (2 to 3) thousand miles on the engine and aren't planning to change your riding habits, drop the oil pan. Pop off the lower #3 bearing cap and inspect it. If the bearing appears new without any wear marks you can breathe a big sigh of relief. Bolt it back together, retorque the bearing cap and keep taking care of the engine. If there is just a tiny indentation on the bottom of the bearing surface, but no scuffing you would be wise to at least replace that bearing and install an oil by-pass kit. If the bearing appears damaged, you have problems and you had better fix them now before your engine blows up.

This table compares modification options:

Modification
Effective change
Pros
Cons

Oil by-pass system
internal
Increases oil flow to crank assembly
Can overcome build quality restrictions
Costs money.

Oil by-pass system
external
Increases oil flow to crank assembly
Can overcome build quality restrictions
Costs money.
More difficult to install than internal. Oil changes a little messy.

Increase oil pressure
Increases pressure throughout the system
Oil flows more quickly to all orifices, surfaces
More oil pressure costs engine HP. May increase aeration, lessening the films lubricating qualities

Remove balance shaft assembly
Increases initial flow to lower end
If done properly will increase engine response and probably increase oil flow enough to handle most #3 oil flow problems.
If crankshaft isn't very close to target balance values the engine may vibrate itself apart.

Synthetic oil
Cooler running, better lubricating qualities.
Is a good way to add durability to an engine.
If used as a Band-Aid for a compromised oiling system may or may not give enough of a safety margin.

Oil additives
Made to enhance oil qualities
In certain situations can add that little extra protection that is needed.
Generally doesn't do much, if anything to enhance top quality synthetic oil.


If you're on a tight budget and can't afford an oil bypass system you can improve your oiling system a little by carefully honing the 'I' tubes internal fittings. Make sure that after honing you use a round deburring tool to radius the inside joint areas of the tube and fitting. Be careful not to remove too much material or you will have to rebraize the fittings Although this isn't the major restriction in the system, the removal of this material will allow the oil to flow a little move smoothly. This in turn reduces the potential for aeration.

The 'J' tube presents the biggest restriction. At Westech we have a special fitting manufactured and tig welded in a jig to the customer's 'J' tube; the pan is then honed to accept this fitting and we hone/debur the 'I' tube. We offer this modification service for $274.95. Our general turn-around time is 5 days but if you are in dire need we can and will process the pan within 48 hours.

Here are some useful contacts and links:

Falicon Performance 813-797-2468 - Crankshaft rebuilding and repairing

Oil Ratings: Motorcycle Consumer News: http://www.mcnews.com - You can read the original tests, February, 1994, updated August, 1998.

We hope this information has been helpful to you.

UPDATE, July 2001
Over the past year we have been seeing an alarming amount of 1997 and later ZX11s with oil related engine failures. Our educated guess as to why these failures are starting to show up has to do with engine wear. As an engine begins to wear, all clearances increase. Apparently the ZX11 oiling system (even with Kawasaki's attempts to 'help' the situation) is marginal, period. So....although we aren't looking to scare owners of late models....it appears as if the oil by pass mod should be done to all ZX11s regardless of manufacturing date.


UPDATE, April 2002
Due to a lack of demand, we are no longer offering the external by-pass. The internal by-pass offers the same advantage as the external by-pass and is easier to install and offers a stock external appearance when installed.

Hope you were making notes, there will be a test later.! :stir:

LOL,
Vin
:blackknight:
 
I first looked at this thread ages ago but couldn't be arsed to read it all :ignore:

Now I've had the time, I wish I hadn't read it :pale:

Does this apply to our ZL1000 engines then?
At 60,000 miles, am I safe???

I hope you realise I'm never going to sleep tonight now!!!

KK
 
Hey KK,
I'm glad you got round to reading it all (at long last!).
I think the first line just about covers it. If you haven't had a problem so far, then you probably won't have one at all.!
However the reason why I posted it was to alert people that you may have a problem in the making. If you change the opil and check filters and screen regularly - that will probably be enough.
if you are tearing your engine down, then check the bearing caps for alignment of the oil pathway - modify if needed.
Hope yopu get a good nights sleep buddy. :cool10:
LOL,
Vin
 
This is a good post to bring back up! I'm considering this and here's an article of this on Marc Van Eldonk's site:
http://www.kawa-eliminator.com/big-endbearingpr/index.html

I'll grab these pics so we will always have them!

I'm also considering removing the balance shaft from the zg1000 motor to gain the extra power and quicker revving as mentioned in post #1.

Anyone else who has done this or has more info please speak up!
 

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Interesting stuff there Vinny thanks for the post. Has anyone in ZL-OA actually had that No.3 big end problem?
 
i have'nt as of yet, but the last zl i bought came with blown motor due to this problem. i think i may check into doing this mod. CHRIS
 
I bougt a zl9 a few years ago with a #3 rod sticking out of the crank case... the crank bearing appears to have been the cause of the failure.

concern over this potential problem is one reason I choose to use the stainless micronic oil filters.....
http://www.scottsperformance.com/products.php?PartType=3

these little buggers arnt cheap but they have no more than 1 psi pressure drop through the filter and can flow way more oil than your motor can..
helps keep oil flow and pressure at its peak, and will help to make sure your internals remain bathed in oil. these also have a 30 micron absolute one pass filtration rating. that means anythng over this 30 microns is filtered out immediately, and absolutely positively will not circulate past your filter and through your motor. to provide some perspecitive ... a white bood cell is approximately 25 microns...

I also use two magnetic oil plugs that can capture metal under the 30 micron and down to the atom...and allways use top quality oil.

while there are oil filters out there that can filter smaller particles than the scotts, as a general rule as the micron rating improves, goes down to smaller micron rating, the resistance to flow and pressure drop after the filter increases. so if you are a casual rider and dont hot rod it too much, a filter with an exceptionally low micron filtration rating may be for you.

if you take your ZL to the dragstrip or really crank that throttle hard, I would not recomend it. another thing to consider is that standard media oil filters may NOT effectively achieve their rated micron filtration in one pass. a filter rated at 10 microns for example, may filter down that low, but the oil may require several trips through your filter to achieve that, and also the filter is likely to be passing particles much much larger as well, very probably alot larger...

the stainless filters are absolute.. one pass and that junk is history...knocked out...gone.... I like that certanty. I am not terribly concerned about slow gradual wear as I am catistrophic failure. I use only top quality motor oils with excellent motor wear charactruristics, and there are definately zl's out there that have achieved 60,000+ miles.. and Im sure a guy could find some connie's with the same motor that achieved 100k miles.. so for me the slow wear concern is a non-issue, top quality motor oils mimize this and the magnetic drain plugs capture the small stuff.. my primary concern is to minimize and hopefully eliminate the risk of catistrophic engine failure by providing max flow at max pressure, and a one pass knock out of anything that could cause any real damage

the other benifit to this set up is... takes about 20 min to get er done...and any one can do it themselves....if your a modifier and would like to correct the oiling problem as indicated in the post... more power to ya bro...! even better.. if you want to do something that can help with this issue, get it done today and go for a ride.... this is the way to go

another benifit to using the stainless type filter is it is a perminent piece, you never replace it. it is literally indestructable. this is good for the guy that does not want to go to the dealer to get a filter everytime you do an oil change. this is allso something that should be carefully considered if you are collector or a guy who owns multiple bikes that my somtimes not get run a whole lot. the reason this would be good for the occasional rider is that paper filters will disentigrate. I purchased a '89 vmax a few years ago, started it, took it for a test ride, bought it, and took it home. when I performed the first oil change I discovered that the oil filter was falling apart....YIKESS! loose paper in your motor can plug up oil passages and cause catastrophic failure.

fortunately I did not have this problem.... but when you pull out your oil filter and it comes out in pieces.... It aint a good feeling. so if your bike has its oil changed infrequently, doesnt see alot of miles, and you dont want to do oil changes just to make sure your filter isnt falling apart.... stainless oil filter will solve your problem permenently...

THIS PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT BROUGHT TO YOU BY THE FOUNDATION TO SAVE THE ZL'S AND MODERN CLASSIC MOTORSPORTS

not yet available in the store but I'm workin' on it...!
 
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I would have to see where in the flow path they put it. Pressure is only resistance to flow. Too much pressure and more oil get bypassed. Since one of the duties of the oil besides lubrication and cushioning is removal of heat, lack of flow, even though there is pressure equals isolated hot spots. I will have to break out the manual and see the routing path of the oil.

My knee jerk reaction is "if it ain't broke...". I know there have been a fair number of #3 rods coming loose, but if you have over 25K miles on a 25 year old bike and it runs good with no sign of noise, the odds are you will get another 25K out of it with nothing more than proper maintenance. Just my 2 cents.
 
So How do we do this mod to our oil pan, is there a step by step or pictures for our bikes?
 
#2 Bearing

I tried to call Mr Turbo for some tech support on this bushing and what exactly it's used for. They aren't taking calls for tech support this week :devil:

So we have all this talk of the #3 rod bearing,, how about a pic of a number #2 rod bearing! Courtesy of Gremlin
 

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