spin on saturday (pics)

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ARCHIVE_furchin

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Cold weather, bike runs terrible

While coming home from work this morning the temperature was 24 degrees outside and my ZL1000 wouldn't run worth a sh**. I have noticed this at other times when the temp is below 35 or so. When cruising the bike acts like it is starving for fuel and will shut off when you come to a stop. If you are accelerating it runs just fine. The bike also runs fine at temps above 35. Funny but my ZL600 does not have any of these problems irregardless of the temperature. Have any other Eli riders experienced this problem and if so how did you cure it? Anyone at all have any thoughts as to a remedy? FURCHIN
 
Wow, interesting question. So the bike runs crappy even when you get it warmed up???? It accelerates fine, but won't run right at partial throttle continuous or idle?

I would start off by checking all of the rubber bits to make sure they are not cracked, like the carb mounting boots. The cold could be causing small cracks to open up leaning out your mixture and causing the problems you talk about, however when at WOT you could be dumping enough fuel to make this problem less noticeable.

Cold weather is also notorious for making a bad battery come out. There is less juice available in the battery when it's cold. Make sure you're charging ok, stick a multimeter on the battery (one lead to positive, one lead to a chassis ground for an accurate result) and you should have around 14.4 v at 3500 rpm.

Third thing would be check your plugs to see how the bike is running. Remember cold air is denser air which means a leaner mixture. If your fuel system (carbs jets etc) isn't up to par it may be causing too lean of a mixutre at partial throttle and idle with all the extra cold air.

Whew.... let us know if we can help more!

Ethan
 
Ok here is a little about your question but first you have to tell us What year is your 600? late 80's or newer. The advances made in technology have helped with this a lot.
I have no idea whether your bike is stock or not so just read between the lines if Im a little off. Any mods you have already made will make more fuel nessecary. Exhaust, air cleaners, ignition advancers, among others.
Cooler air is more dense than warm air, so more gets packed into the combustion chambers. With more air in the combustion chambers more fuel is also required to keep the air/fuel mixture at optimum. That is one of the reasons that all the Hot Rod car guys run a cold air intake. As more fuel and air mean more power.
Do you run any of the aftermarket parts on your bike? This will exaggerate this problem as the weather cools as well. After adding all the aftermarket parts to mine I had to add a high flow fuel tap to keep up with the fuel demands even in July here. I hope this helps you a little bit. As the bikes got newer this problem decreased but I still see the same thing happening from time to time on both of my bikes as it has gotten colder. The 87 ZL1000 and the 99 HD Night Train. Some of these can be real picky on jetting as the temp, humidity, and elevation change. Good luck and post back if you have more questions, and yes I know Im kind of rambling.
Joker
 
And remember that thes bikes are equipped with an enriching circuit I believe and could be the reason it runs OK on accelleration. I cant remember for sure and Fuelr still has my manuals.
Joker
 
My 85 900 ran like crap last Sunday too. It was around 45 degrees or so and sounds like it has a miss. When it is idleling you hear a "pop". It didn't matter if it was cold or warm. Plus it just lacks the normal power unless your running WOT. I was just trying to figure out where to start trouble shooting this issue as well. I don't think its a carb problem since they were just cleaned, and I fixed the previous flat spot issue since a diaphram was pinched when the dealer put the carbs back together. I know I still need to replace a couple of diaphrams but this is a brand new issue. I had the bike out at Holloween and it ran great. It was a little hard to start and probably do need to replace the battery come springtime. I did buy a tool that is suppose to tell you if you have a good spark or not, so I'll start with that.
 
cold weather

my 97 600 runs different in cold weather. The throttle is flat, but once it is totally warmed up, it is fine. But it takes awhile to warm up in the cold weather. I also have to adjust the idle speed when it is cold out, which helps a little. Mine runs different but i wouldnt say it runs bad.
 
There was a Post on the UK Site about "Carb Icing" on the Import Eliminators. Seems like Kawasaki UK had a Retrofit for the Carbs, Not for sure what it was But I remember my 84 GPZ 900 Ran like Crap when it Got Below Freezing[ Didnt have it Long eneough to even look for a Fix] Cured my Cold Weather Problems by "PARKING IT UNTIL IT WARMS UP" : :D 8O :P :twisted: Later Rocky
 
Cold weather, bike runs terrible

Ok guys I'll try to give feedback. This afternoon I took the bike for a spin, ran just fine. So that makes you wonder. Anyway:
Elimiboss, I have checked all rubbers, they are good. The battery is one month old and is hooked to a battery tender Jr. all the time when parked. Fine piece off equipment I might add. My plugs are a year old, 4500 miles on them. Fuel system idea might be correct, I'll get to that in a bit.

Joker, The ZL600 is an '87 and has no problems in cold weather. It's the '87 ZL1000 that is finicky. This bike has a Dale Walker jet kit, 4 degree timing advance, K&N filter (stock air box), and Hole Shot pipes.

Rammy1500, I too have the popping at idle, follow along it very well may be carburation.

Knightkadosh aka Brian ditto above.

Now the skinny on all this. I talked to Jim Goebel at Redline cycle in Skokie, Illinois about this. Redline is one of the premier Kawasaki restoring facilities in the USA. His response was that all things as described to him indicated a carburation problem. Mainly in the pilot jet settings since this bike has never to my knowledge had them adjusted or cleaned. I did not do it after installing jet kit. He felt that all pilot jets would be out of whack. Thus causing a lean running condition. Will find out later after a cleaning and readjustment. The test while riding is to pull choke lever a tad, if this stops poor running conditions then this is likely the problem.
Thanks All, Furchin
 
I was able to fix my "popping" problem and got the bike running good. I removed the spark plugs and everyone of them were black from carbon. I just replaced these plugs in September, right before I took it to the shop. I'm hoping it was just a fluke that they carbon up like that and not because of the shop adjusting the A/F mixture wrong. I'll just have to see if they carbon up again and take it from there. Has anyone used or seen the colortune kits that allows you to adjust your carbs to the correct A/F mixture?
 
Has anyone tried running hotter plugs in their bikes? I was doing a little research and saw where running a hotter plug might solve my richness (fouled plugs) problem. I'm having trouble believing that the idle mixture could be that out of wack, since I just had the carbs cleaned and check by a dealership. The carbs are stock and never been messed with until then.
 
In America motorcycles are sold strictly as luxury items, not as year-round transportation, and the Eliminator is a prime example of a limited-use, US-market-directed product. It's designed not to overheat, not to run in arctic conditions, and it's likely that there is simply no way to tune it that will compensate for this.

My brother spent two winters trying to get his brand new 250 Ninja (great bike! why would anyone buy a scooter, much less a rebel, etc.?) to run right in Ithica, NY, including hotter plugs and richer jetting, but he just had to keep the choke on and clean the plugs once in a while (oh yeah, and dodge the ice!). There's just too much radiator to get these bikes up to temperature when it gets below freezing: maybe you could try a cardboard dam, like the truckers?
 
I would definately agree if I was riding in winter but I'm getting foulded out plugs in 50-60 degree weather. I'm thinking for Christmas I'm going to buy myself the colortune kits so I can get my mixture setting dead on and not pay the dealership anymore to mess with my carbs.
 
update

Ok guys, here's my update to what I have found about the pilot jets. I finally got around to checking them. After figuring out how to get the plugs out without removing carbs I found all four settings out of whack. What a job, but with a lot of thought I figured out a way. Dremel tool to cut a half moon shape out of the base of the jet port. Then pop out the plug. The base setting calls for 2 turns out. One was 2 1/4, another 1 5/8, another was 1 1/2 and I don't remember what the last one was. Needless to say not anywhere close to the recomended settings. It may be a while 'till I can really give it a test ride 'cause they're calling for sleet and freezing rain here in PA. I really need the 30 degree weather to go along with the test because that's when it acted up before. Might have to fine tune after running, will just have to wait and see. Anyway, hope this solves my problem. And for you guys who don't want to pull the carbs, it can be done this way, you just have to be patient and with as little cuss words as possible. Will follow up with update when it is possible.
FURCHIN
 
The service manager at the dealership told me they did a "drop idle" test to set the pilot screws properly. I doing some research on how to do a drop idle test, as the bike is running you screw the pilot screw in until the idle rises and then count the turns until the idle drops then divide the number of turns in half and that is where you leave the pilot screws. I'm thinking though that the shop richened it up so that the bike would run a little better and that's causing my plugs fouling out. So Furchin what tool did you use to get to the two inner carb pilot screws? I've seen a pilot adjusting tool on JC Whitney that is suppose to make the job a lot easier.
 
Rammy1500,
When you say the two inner carb pilot screws are you refering to the carbs on #2 and #3 cylinder? If you are I used the dremel to cut the same way. I then used a small slotted screwdriver bit from a hex kit and with my fingers turned the bit to adjust pilot screws. I scribed a mark on the bit so I could count the turns. It's real tight in there, not much room to manuver your hands. You really need an extra person to hold a light for you so as to see better. The patience of Jobe is required to do this 'cause it takes some time. Hope this helps you.
Furchin
 
Thanks Furchin for the trick for adjusting 2 and 3. I was told by the service manager that they did the adjustments and thus had to cut out the plugs. I haven't check to see if they filled the gaps back in with anything but I doubt it. Plus it sounds like a good job to get my son to help me with as well. He wants to learn how to work on cars and bikes. Plus checking this would be a good first step. I'll assume if the screws are backed out more than 2 turns they have it adjusted to run richer. I wonder how close the tolerance is between running rich enough to foul plugs (I mean all four plugs where jet black) and not running too lean?

If that doesn't seem to be to out of wack, I guess the next thing to check is to make sure the choke is getting opened all of the way.
 
Rammy1500,
Just remember that the base setting for the 900 is 2 1/8 turns out. The 1000 is 2 turns. I see by your info that you have a 900. I'm in the process of trying to make a flexible screwdriver to make the adjustments easier. Will let all know how it works, if it works at all. Furchin
 
Furchin, I did see where JC Whitney has a pilot adjusting screwdriver for $25 that is made just for getting to the number 2 and 3 carbs.
 
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