Clutch Switch Issue

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acevmp

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Hello all! I'm new to the forum and new to my ZL 600 ('87) as well and I'm glad to be part of the fam. I got the bike at a good deal from a mechanic who got it as collateral for a job he did. It's had a few mods here and there but also needs a bit of love (which I am happy to provide!). I've only had the bike for a week so I'm still learning all of the ins and outs. One of the quirks is that the bike only starts in Neutral Without the clutch being pressed. Weird huh? If the clutch is engaged it doesn't even crank, but let it go and it starts just fine. If the bike is in gear and the clutch is engaged, still no action but if I release it then the bike will lurch forward and stall (or maybe if I give it fuel and release the brake it'll take off but I'm not interested in that result so I won't worry too much about it :) ) So from browsing the forum and other sources I've been assuming that it has something to do with the Clutch switch (which if I disconnect I get no start regardless of clutch or gear position) so it seems to be functioning somewhat.

As a note to this... the bike is running well otherwise however the Neutral indicator in the instrument cluster stays lit even when the bike is in gear. I'm pretty sure this might be related but before I start taking things apart I thought I'd ask for some help and advice!

Thanks Everyone out there and happy riding!
 
Welcome to the forum, I don't have a 600, so I'm not the best to answer your question, however, there are several very knowledgeable ZL600 owners on the site that will surely chime in shortly.
 
:hello: Welcome to the forum. I'm @ 40 miles from you. I'm retired & can look at the bike for you if you would like. You can by pass the switch for trouble-shooting. It may just need cleaned. The neutral indicator being on all the time can be a bad/floating ground. Something else it may have dirt in the contacts at the motor. I have not had one apart on a ZL. The one I am familiar with is there is a small ball bearing inside with a small spring in the motor. When the bike is put in neutral the ball bearing makes contact & turns on the the neutral indicator. It can be stuck & cause it to always stay on. My one duel sport bike had a crack in it were it mounted in the lower end of the side of the motor & the neutral indicator was intermittent. As stated there are quite a few ZL 600 owners that will chime in & tell you for sure what is wrong. A good thing to do with these old bike is go through all the wiring & clean all the connectors. Also before reconnecting them put dielectric grease on the pins inside the connectors.
 
R. J. said:
A good thing to do with these old bike is go through all the wiring & clean all the connectors. Also before reconnecting them put dielectric grease on the pins inside the connectors.
Click to expand...

+1 on that, fixes all kinds of gremlins.
 
golddrakul said:
+1 on that, fixes all kinds of gremlins.
Click to expand...

:hello: What year was that movie. :laughing7: It will fix problems that you don"t even know you have. I wish I would have done it sooner. It would have saved me a lot of time & money. For example, when I had a high resistance of 27 ohms on one wire going to the large coolant relay. It is amazing what a 50/50 mixture of baking soda & white vinegar will do to the connectors. I learned that from my Dad way back in the late 60s. I'm pretty sure that is what caused all my electrical problems. That & the junction/fuse box. If it wasn't for all the wealth, knowledge & the people on this great forum my ZL 1 would still be dead in the water collecting dust. Thanks to all. R. J.
 
Thanks for the input! I just realized also that the kickstand switch might be faulty as well so I'll need to check that too. I suppose on my next day off it's wire work for me. I'll keep this thread updated with progress but I welcome any more insight.
 
acevmp said:
Thanks for the input! I just realized also that the kickstand switch might be faulty as well so I'll need to check that too. I suppose on my next day off it's wire work for me. I'll keep this thread updated with progress but I welcome any more insight.
Click to expand...

:hello: If you need any more info just let us know. Also the manuals & other good to know info is in the technical section of the forum. They can be down loaded.
 
Welcome -- it's always nice to see another ZL6 bike show up here.

It sounds like you may have two issues: one with the clutch switch and a second with the neutral switch, or maybe the wiring connecting these to other things. The two switches do play together under certain conditions, and the only way I can come up with to explain what you're seeing is to look at both.

First, the neutral switch. Really all this switch does is make a path to ground for a couple of circuits -- the starter circuit and the neutral indicator light circuit. Since the indicator light is always on, it sounds like either the switch is stuck in the closed position, or there's a short to ground either in the connecting wiring or in the switch itself. I don't think the switch is stuck because of the way the switch works with a star-shaped plate in the transmission -- if the switch were sticking, it would be in the open position and the neutral indicator light would never come on.

You might be able to test the switch by checking for continuity:
1) put the bike in any gear other than neutral (the bike does not need to be running)
2) check for continuity between the switch (located on the side of the gear box just behind the water pump on the left side of the bike) and the crankcase, which should already be at ground. If you have current flow, the switch may have an internal short and will probably need to be replaced.

If the switch seems to be working properly, trace the wiring as best you can back from the switch, looking for places where the insulation has been cracked/melted/etc that might be allowing a short to ground.

Second, the clutch switch. When the lever's released, the path to ground for the starter motor should be through the neutral switch. The fact that you can start the bike in neutral with the clutch released is normal. However, with the lever pulled in, the path to ground does not involve the neutral switch at all, which makes me think the clutch switch is wonky. There are 3 wires going to clutch switch: black, black/yellow, and black/red. Test for continuity between the black wire and each of the other two, in turn. With the lever pulled in, the black and black/yellow wires should be connected; with the lever released, the black and black/red wires should be connected. If I had to guess, I'd say you'll find the black and black/yellow wires never make a circuit no matter the lever position.

Finally, like R.J. said, check all the pin connectors to make sure they're clean -- even if the clutch switch seems to work right, a dirty connector could give the same result.

Good luck.
 
For the clutch and kickstand switches, spray WD40 into the plunger while working the plunger in and out.
 
kawboy said:
For the clutch and kickstand switches, spray WD40 into the plunger while working the plunger in and out.
Click to expand...

I think WD-40 is about the last thing I would use on an electrical connection.

1. It's not a good conductor but it is a poor one and as it will get all over the connector it can create a path to ground or short a circuit. (Voltage leak)

2. It degrades the plastic wire insulation over time.

3. It attracts and collects dust.


WD-40 may give some temporary relief to the problem but creates more long term ones. A better solution is spray Silicone. It drives out moisture and forms a moisture barrier when it dries and does a good job lubricating moving parts. It does not collect and trap dust and dirt.
 
Thanks again to everyone for the helpful advice... I'm excited for a day off so I can get to work!
 
WD40's solvent will help clean the switch contacts as you work the plunger. Admittedly a little messy but it works. We're talking low voltage/low current here, so leakage probably not an issue. Clean it out with contact cleaner if it makes you feel better. Silicone will lube the switch but has no cleaning properties. Any substance left on the switch will accumulate dirt . . . that's why we're cleaning it :biggrin:
 
salamander said:
First, the neutral switch. Really all this switch does is make a path to ground for a couple of circuits -- the starter circuit and the neutral indicator light circuit. Since the indicator light is always on, it sounds like either the switch is stuck in the closed position, or there's a short to ground either in the connecting wiring or in the switch itself. I don't think the switch is stuck because of the way the switch works with a star-shaped plate in the transmission -- if the switch were sticking, it would be in the open position and the neutral indicator light would never come on.

You might be able to test the switch by checking for continuity:
1) put the bike in any gear other than neutral (the bike does not need to be running)
2) check for continuity between the switch (located on the side of the gear box just behind the water pump on the left side of the bike) and the crankcase, which should already be at ground. If you have current flow, the switch may have an internal short and will probably need to be replaced.

If the switch seems to be working properly, trace the wiring as best you can back from the switch, looking for places where the insulation has been cracked/melted/etc that might be allowing a short to ground.
Click to expand...

UPDATE*

So I had a few minutes in the garage today coming in from work and i thought I'd give things a quick look over... as I inspected the neutral switch, something looked a little funny and as I got low I noticed the the PO ran a second wire from the switch to a bolt in the frame (there's that path to ground) I nixed that wire and the neutral light is functioning as normal. It didn't fix things with the clutch however so when I find time I'm still going to have to take the time to trace wires and clean things up a bit. Thanks again everyone, I'll keep you posted!
 
acevmp said:
UPDATE*

So I had a few minutes in the garage today coming in from work and i thought I'd give things a quick look over... as I inspected the neutral switch, something looked a little funny and as I got low I noticed the the PO ran a second wire from the switch to a bolt in the frame (there's that path to ground) I nixed that wire and the neutral light is functioning as normal. It didn't fix things with the clutch however so when I find time I'm still going to have to take the time to trace wires and clean things up a bit. Thanks again everyone, I'll keep you posted!
Click to expand...

Update*
Sooooo the bypass of the neutral switch was apparently by design... (on another forum I read that the clutch lever if it was adjusted for any reason might just be too close not allowing the switch enough room to engage/disengage fully so I went out to take a look at that). I started the bike and as soon as I tried to put it in gear, it would die (but the neutral light worked great!). So does this mean shoddy clutch switch? Or kickstand switch? Or something else in the wiring? I guess we'll see!
 
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kawboy said:
WD40's solvent will help clean the switch contacts as you work the plunger. Admittedly a little messy but it works. We're talking low voltage/low current here, so leakage probably not an issue. Clean it out with contact cleaner if it makes you feel better. Silicone will lube the switch but has no cleaning properties. Any substance left on the switch will accumulate dirt . . . that's why we're cleaning it :biggrin:
Click to expand...

We'll just agree to disagree. :biggrin:
 
acevmp said:
Update*
Sooooo the bypass of the neutral switch was apparently by design... (on another forum I read that the clutch lever if it was adjusted for any reason might just be too close not allowing the switch enough room to engage/disengage fully so I went out to take a look at that). I started the bike and as soon as I tried to put it in gear, it would die (but the neutral light worked great!). So does this mean shoddy clutch switch? Or kickstand switch? Or something else in the wiring? I guess we'll see!
Click to expand...


Are you working from the correct electrical schematic?
 
OldRider said:
Are you working from the correct electrical schematic?
Click to expand...

Yes I am using the one from the book via the dl section, however I haven't really done anything as of yet. I'll recap everything that's going on and maybe shed some clarity.

In the condition I got the ZL6

1. Bike will attempt to start in any gear without the clutch being engaged and side-stand up or down (Will start in Neutral)
2. If Clutch it engaged will not start regardless of gear
3. Neutral light stays on (due to neutral switch being disconnected and bypassed)

All I did was remove the bypass and reconnect the neutral switch
1. Neutral light works
2. When put into gear it dies
 
:hello: When the bike is in neutral it is designed to start with the kick stand up or down. Also when putting it in gear while the stand is down the bike will stall. Start with the kick stand switch. Remove it from the bike clean it at the plunger & check for any loose or fraid wires. Clean the connectors, put dielectric grease in the plug and reconnect it.
 
Maybe the ZL6 is different from the bigger zl's, but assuming the wiring schematics are correct, any one of the following should be enough to keep the ignition circuit completed and prevent the ignition from cutting out:

1. bike in neutral
2. clutch engaged
3. kickstand up

So ... if the bike's dying when you put it in gear even with the clutch engaged, that suggests that the clutch switch is wonky -- my guess would be a bad connection in the switch or switch connector, which you could try cleaning and dielectric greasing (at least for the connector) to see if that helps. The PO's grounding wire would have been a fix for the bad switch.

To check the kickstand switch, start the bike in neutral, pull in the clutch, and put it in gear both with kickstand down and raised. If the kickstand switch is working right, the bike should stay running with the stand up, but die with stand down. If this is the case, it points again to the clutch switch. If the bike dies with the stand either up or down, the kickstand switch is also behaving badly, in addition to the clutch switch.

The short of it is I think your clutch switch is not right, and your kickstand switch may or may not need attention, too. Your idea that the position of the clutch lever may not be activating the switch correctly should also be checked, but if anything I would think that the switch is not being pushed in far enough, not that the lever's not letting the switch release.

Good luck.
 
You can bypass the clutch switch by unplugging the wiring harness from the clutch switch, jump the two outside wires together. See if that helps.
 
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