Letter to Kawasaki

Prost. I suspect that by the time the vmax sales flattened out that the start up costs had already been absorbed and the profit margin on the design was very high. they did not change much over that 20yr period. minimal retooling, twenty years of sales, dont need to sell as many at that point to maintain a healthy margin.
Click to expand...

I don't really know if that was the reason, although its a good analogy. Personally, I believe that in the late eighties, Harley sales were booming. If I remember correctly Harley sold more bikes from 1986-1996 than their previous 30 years. Remember the waiting list and the dealers in-stock inflation prices? The public considered any bike that even slightly resembles a harley as an inferior "copycat", regardless if it was a superior motorcycle or not. If it didn't have the "ptato, potato, Potato" idle and the Harley name, it just wasn't the "real deal". There loss, I suppose. It was almost an obsession to get a Harley then. Some are of the opinion that Yamaha kept the maxasaurus going was that it really had no competion. I suppose to an extend that that makes some type of reasonable sense.
 
Last edited:
Wouldn't be M/S based just some parts from it,wheels,forks,etc.
 
I can tell why the max wasnt abandoned.
I was still turning a profit. trust me the BOD boys dont really care if its the cooolist **** thing there is if it aint making the share holders money it dies. these guys dont ride to work they are driven by chufer in a lincoln stretch limo.

somehow for yamaha the vmax (power cruser) became their flagship and a definate feather in the yamaha cap. while the other makers discontinued a real effort to compete in this area. this is a point of confusion for me, why would one maker be wildly long term successful in the power cruser niche while the others are not???
 
Look at the issue of the original ZL concept failing from this point of view....Kawasaki brought a knife to a gunfight....The bikes that were competing with the ZL900 were as follows....1985 Yamaha V-Max (1200cc V-four), 1985 Honda Magna (1200cc V-four), and the 1985 Suzuki Madura (1200cc V-four)....

Too much motor for the ZL900 and when Kawasaki brought out the ZL1000, it was STILL too little too late, Kawasaki underestimated the appeal of the big motors, and 900 and 1000 inline fours were just too little...Now....Talk about styling...

The ZL900 was the original streetfighter style, and is STILL duplicated over and over by the guys that are building the stripped-down sportbikes as streetfighters....Not to mention the Truimph Speed/Street Triple...

So, if we could go back in time and convince Kawasaki execs to build a 1200-1300 inline 4 for the original ZL would the standard have shifted completely???

You cannot deny that the V-four has a great sound, but if you cam-up an inlne four it can sound lumpy and throaty too...

Forget the MeanStreak frame...It's all wrong for the inline 4 and we will need a new frame that is gusseted and reinforced to withstand the forces that the 1400 from the Connie will produce...So Kawi will need to look at a TUBE frame for this bike...Motor, in my opinion needs to be cradled, so that rubber mounts can be used, we want SMOOTH, folks, and unless I am mistaken the Connie has a single sided swingarm (maybe I am wrong), and should be easy to spoon a 200 series rear tire onto that....

Inverted front fork can be sourced from the MeanStreak, as well as headlight, brakes from the MeanStreak should be adequate...

I fancy myself an artist....I am gonna dust off my drawing supplies and see what I can di here...Should be fun.

moab...
 
Those focus groups are almost worthless in my opinion!
Most of them have you locked into a choice between this or that? and no real input on true developement. Basically we want to do this or that and you get to help us chose, but we really dont give a **** what you would really like! because what you really want wont make us filthy rich and force you to have to come back for support or replace it in a few years! When you find a focus group that askes you to think about it and ask your friends what they think and come back in a month or two then and only then will I believe they are truely looking for what we want and not what they can push on us!
They could not and will not build us a bike like we want because the market research will favor the young who want sport bikes or the middle aged dumbassses who want or think a harley is the way to go!
You have to understand the majority of bikes now a days is the HD so they all want to tap into that market in order to grow. We might have a chance of getting an up coming company like that one from korea to build us a bike we want because they need all the market they can muster. But again once they get there they will leave us behind just as kawi did!

As for the performance of a v-2? what is the handycap on a I-4 at the track these days? Anything can be made to run but at what cost? remember the discusions on cam choices?
take one of those truely fast HD's and try to ride it in all the normal conditions you do with your zl and you will find its no fun!/requiers race fuel/will heat up and loose oil pressure in slow moving traffic/and require constant rebuilding!

As for what it needs to do in order to make sales is not look hidious like the rest of the bikes on the market and perform with nthe fastest in the 1/4mile, roll on, and on the street. Also being a Muscle bike it should not be deced out with fancy useless crap and electronics like some of the manufacturers are tryin to add to bikes.
The mean streak is a joke and they should have called it the pretender! loud/mean looking/but no balls! thats why it failed. A harley dosent have to prove anything because its a harley and most people are stupid when it comes to a harley but a kawi is forced to perform better or not be sold the meanstreak was/ is lacking the mean in its name!
 
Personally, I think Kawi brought a flame thrower to the gunfight. hell, it had consistantley better times than almost all the competion other than the Vmax and at 900 cc's !! And THE best looks of all of them. I'm not buying it.
 
MachIV said:
The tooling to build stuff usually has a life of around 10 years.
After that a redesign or rebuild of the tooling and keep making the same thing.
(we all know what HD does)
So that gives the M/S tooling a few more.
You need to suggest existing parts from various models to keep
costs down.
This is what they do,how on earth do you think I managed to build my 12.
Connie 14 motor and shaftdrive and M/S suspension on a redisigned M/S
frame.
I've already described my idea of it in another thread here.
It neeeds to be parts bin,up to date and still recognizable as a ZL.
I could come up with something that would sell.
Click to expand...

MachIV,
Just out curiosity, if you could set up a shop to make your concept of the ZL14, what would the selling price need to be?
 
You mean if I was to design something for Kaw and had freee reign?
Right around $10k give or take.
You'd need to keep it less than the V-Max to steal sales from it.
 
MachIV said:
You mean if I was to design something for Kaw and had freee reign?
Right around $10k give or take.
You'd need to keep it less than the V-Max to steal sales from it.
Click to expand...

Well, that would be great if Kaw would do it, but, what if you had to set up a
small company/shop that did it independently?
 
I'm into my ZL12 for between 6$ and $7K.
It's hard to tell when I'm at the mercy of the whims of people I bid against.
Finding rebuildable ZLs at a reasonable cost is a factor,getting them here
is too.
 
Now here is a better foundation, and a more complete "parts bin" solution

concours3.jpg


concours4.jpg
 
Mark, if I had one of those I would be tempted to just put some lights and a seat on it.
Now that would be a Monster.
 
Last edited:
Take a ZRX1200, stretch it, slam it, rake it, put ZL-like tank and side covers on it, add a fat back tire. Done.

Edit: 4-2 exhaust straight into fat slash-cut mufflers - no weird turns, fake covers, or "power chamber".
 
Last edited:
i can do some 3D design work if required. i'm not a pro but am pretty good IMO.
 
Prostreet said:
Personally, I think Kawi brought a flame thrower to the gunfight. hell, it had consistantley better times than almost all the competion other than the Vmax and at 900 cc's !! And THE best looks of all of them. I'm not buying it.
Click to expand...

Yet, did not outlive 2 of the 3 bikes....Imagine if they had built a 1200cc inline 4 ZL, we would be celebrating the new ZL right now, and the V-Max would have been relegated to the dustbin of history....That was my only point....

moab...
 
Trust me guyz I have been doing "mock-ups" on my Connie for awhile now and the frame is all wrong...no where for a gas tank so far....among other things, it really is "tall".

Mach....it may not be to far out of line to consider a "custom" shop or something like it, and start producing a prototype "ZL". Past couple of years now I did alot of speculation Home building, thru the dice daily on about $250k so the idea of investing in a bike "Company"...starts to sound like a viable idea to me. Seems like you may have the 900/1200 ironed out...so that becomes the first run, Hell look at Boss Hoss...this is exactly how they started.
We are currently doing a job for America's Motorsports here in Nashville. The Owner has leased a newer bigger building and wants to be in operation by early spring....they did VERY well this last Summer with the Motocycle craze phenomenon that happened. He belives it will happen again this Spring and those that are ready for it will benefit greatly. Kbug and I had been considering approching him as a place for investment already and now with this thread building in momentum.....
Well Mach, what would you think of producing these yourself??? I had made the joke to you earlier in the year...but now....
3 yrs ago K and I had gone over the idea of a Jet Ski rental deal on the nearby Lake. I met with a guy from Sea Doo who was willing to sell us 10 SPX's for $2100 each if we bought the quantity, and would through in "support". We never went thru with the idea but did learn thet the Manufacturer will cut deals on quantity purchases.....Maybe a handfull of motors.....we build the frames?? Doesnt Suzuki buy just certain parts from Kawi, rebadge then put the stuff on their bikes?
I dont think we may need Mama Kaw to make the "next" ZL, if we think it through properly.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top